Instrument Lighting & Paint Testing

[Gary Lewis]

What isn't easily seen is that there are two different connectors where the cluster plugs in.  The idiot light cluster has fewer pins than the gauge cluster.  So not only is the cluster different, but the whole cab wiring harness is different.  And don't forget, that harness runs from headlight to headlight on a Bullnose.

Remember the discussion of the harnii?  That there were 12 different ones in '85 and only 6 in '86?  A large part of that reduction was due to dropping the idiot lights.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I remember you saying how many different alternator and regulator harnesses there were.
But I thought that was on the engine side of the connector with ammeter wires and large yellow feeding the ignition switch.

Maybe I misunderstood?

[Gary Lewis]

The page (Documentation/Electrical/Wiring Harnesses) currently only shows a few of the different harnii for these trucks, but includes the alternator to regulator as well as the cab harnesses.  And while there were several for the charging system, the sheer number of cab harnesses is striking.

I count 42 different cab harnii for the F-Series trucks, and it appears that the driving forces were: gauges vs idiot lighgts; single vs dual tanks; gas vs diesel engine.  And then there were changes in the wiring for which no explanation is given, like the fact that each year got a different harness even though I can't tell you why save for the changes from 1980 to 81.  And then 1985 had two sets - prior to 2/85 and after that.

I know of some of the changes, like those in the HVAC controls that have different connectors, requiring a whole new set of harnii.  But I don't know why each year had to have its own set of harnesses, so there must be other changes of which I'm not aware.

[myrl883]

My son put LED bulbs in the cluster of my '86 while he was borrowing it. He hates them because they create hot spots in the lighting, and the bulbs he used are not dimmable. I like the color, but not the hot spots - I'm going to experiment with a couple of different styles to see if some have better balanced lighting. I also plan to change the blue filters to the later green ones.

[Gary Lewis]

That's one of the many things I like about the HiPo LEDs - no hot spots.  At least, I don't see any.  Their design of sending the light to the sides instead of off the end contributes to that.  But a more reflective surface on the inside of the gauge cluster helps bounce the light around and, therefore, fill in all of the areas.

On the filters, be sure to polish them.  Bill of HiPo Parts told me that the surface of them breaks down from the heat of the bulb and that's what causes them to be opaque.  But that if you use plastic polish on them they'll become translucent again.

[Gary Lewis]

UPDATE: I got a note back from Bill of HiPo Parts pointing out some errors in my testing.  So I've added the following to the first post:

EDIT: Bill of HiPo Parts has gotten back to me and advised that my testing about the paint and its ability to fluoresce is flawed.  I will be editing this post to reflect on what I learn, soon.  In the interim, I've modified what I posted about the paint.......

UPDATE from Bill of HiPo Parts: "Our paint does have a texture, by design.  That texture is the fluorescent pigment.  Fluorescent pigment is a solid, so it does make the paint have a slight texture.  The other thing I did not see mentioned is that our paint is semi-translucent by design.  That allows the light to partially penetrate the surface and reach pigment below the surface to increase the illumination effect."

UPDATE from Bill of HiPo Parts: "Fluorescent paint requires a portion of the blue light spectrum to excite the pigment (make it glow).  If you are using white light, then the other portions of the spectrum (specifically the red) negate the effects of the blue spectrum.   This is why the dashes of vehicles that use fluorescent paints are normally illuminated in some shade of blue or green light.  Both of those colors are capable of exciting the pigment.  Trying to make a  fluorescent paint glow with white light is not going to have much of an effect, if any."

And, when I learn more from Bill I'll be back to correct and add more.  

[Gary Lewis]

Bill @ HiPo Parts has given us a code of BT15LK0313.  It will provide 20% off any LED purchase over $20, until 3/20/20.  I just ordered 5 of the blue LED's and used the code during checkout.  Sure enough, it took the price of one LED off - $8.85.

And he provided some background info on the bulbs.  He said that the blue bulb I showed is similar to their 5 SMD bulb, which produces about 115 lumens.  He couldn't say that my blue bulb is that bright, but as a point of reference, their 20PS bulbs produce 245 lumens.  

That bulb was designed by them, including the built-in bridge rectifier that makes them non-polarized, and it was made specifically for lighting vintage instrument clusters.  It uses plasma SMDs, which are newer technology and produce a lot more light than older technology.

So I plan to re-run the tests when the blue LED's come in.  I'll polish some blue filters and use some incandescent bulbs to set a baseline.  Then I'll swap in the HiPo Cool White LED's, then remove the filters and use the HiPo blue LED's.  Then the Warm White LED's.  Last, I'll stick my blue SmD LED's in.

And, I'll do a comparison of Testors vs HiPo paints with the blue filters as well as the various LED's.

Any suggestions on other tests?

[1986F150Six]

Gary Lewis wrote

Any suggestions on other tests?

Cup of coffee for a break?

[ArdWrknTrk]

I don't mean to counter what he's said, but I have some background and understand a lot of that is gibberish.

Pigments flouresce or phosphorese because *ultraviolet or violet* light is exciting the atoms and they throw out photons in response.
Only these higher frequency waves have the energy to do this.

Green is in the middle of the visible light spectrum and will do nothing.

Red is on the other end of visible light from violet, but it does nothing to negate the photons produced by atoms in the pigment (other than being part of the total light output of the LED's phosphor, while not contributing to the glow)

Translucency is a positive.
Chunks in the paint are not helping anything but diffraction.
Pigments can be ground as fine as you want.
This reaction is happening on an atomic or molecular level.

When someone shows me that they can physically grind molecules and atoms to dust so they no longer have their properties I will be VERY impressed!

[ArdWrknTrk]

Maybe he's just parroting what he's been told by his supplier?
But I'm not one to not call out *bunk

[Gary Lewis]

David - I've only had 3 cups of Starbuck's strongest today, so I doubt I need more right now.  

Jim - I understand what you are saying.  But I'm just going to focus on the quantifiable, meaning what the camera captures.  (I'm assuming what it captures is what the eye can see, but will do my best to confirm that.)

As I did yesterday, I'll put the camera on a tripod and use the self-timer to ensure there's no vibration and we get a sharp picture.  And, as said, I'll start with the incandescent bulbs and blue filters as the baseline, and then progress from there.

[Danny G]

Gary Lewis wrote

UPDATE: I got a note back from Bill of HiPo Parts pointing out some errors in my testing.  So I've added the following to the first post:

EDIT: Bill of HiPo Parts has gotten back to me and advised that my testing about the paint and its ability to fluoresce is flawed.  I will be editing this post to reflect on what I learn, soon.  In the interim, I've modified what I posted about the paint.......

UPDATE from Bill of HiPo Parts: "Our paint does have a texture, by design.  That texture is the fluorescent pigment.  Fluorescent pigment is a solid, so it does make the paint have a slight texture.  The other thing I did not see mentioned is that our paint is semi-translucent by design.  That allows the light to partially penetrate the surface and reach pigment below the surface to increase the illumination effect."

UPDATE from Bill of HiPo Parts: "Fluorescent paint requires a portion of the blue light spectrum to excite the pigment (make it glow).  If you are using white light, then the other portions of the spectrum (specifically the red) negate the effects of the blue spectrum.   This is why the dashes of vehicles that use fluorescent paints are normally illuminated in some shade of blue or green light.  Both of those colors are capable of exciting the pigment.  Trying to make a  fluorescent paint glow with white light is not going to have much of an effect, if any."

And, when I learn more from Bill I'll be back to correct and add more.  

lol like I said hit it with a little uv light and watch it go.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Hit it with a violet laser and look out!  

I've been playing with LED's since the '60's.
Many were as big as the tip of my pinky and still weren't bright enough to be seen in daylight.

I understand the few wavelengths that LED's can actually produce depending on their doping.
I understand the colors emitted by them depending on the phosphors laid down or overlayed on them.
I understand how slight variations in doping -or- phosphor get binned and how tight a wavelength is actually possible.
.... not as pure as some lasers though.

After decades of red and green LED's blue LED's were a marvel when they were first produced in Japan.

The science is there
The facts are there.

While I'm very happy with all the HiPo parts I have bought, my feathers are really ruffled reading that "stuff"

[ArdWrknTrk]

Actually most camera sensors are pretty sensitive way down into the infrared.
They use filters to block or reduce what makes it to the sensor.

If you want to see what a pit viper (like an adder or rattlesnake) does, pull the filter off.
Or use it for improvised night vision.

[Gary Lewis]

The filters make the camera "see" pretty much what our eyes see, which is obviously why they are there.  But every camera is different.

I have three Nikons, from the 990 sold in 2000, to the Coolpix S9700 of 2014 that I've been using, to the D7500 that is fairly recent.  But the S9700 seems to capture pretty much what I'm seeing.  However, when I test the fluorescent paint I'll watch that more closely and see if I can tell a difference.

[swampedout]

Hey Gary, Im sure you know this since you are pretty savvy with computers and have good cameras but you might try downloading one of the light meter apps onto your phone to see how much light they pick up. Ive never used any of them and I dont know how accurate theyd be especially at such low levels but since youre going to such lengths to compare, maybe it is a way of creating comparable "numbers".
Other than that, as long as your camera levels are set manually and remain the same, we can all be the judges.

[Gary Lewis]

Sam - I moved this comment here, where it belongs, and will then move your response after it.  

ETM - Good idea!  I hadn't thought of that.  Do you have a recommended app?  I looked and there are several.

[ETM]

Gary Lewis wrote

ETM - Good idea!  I hadn't thought of that.  Do you have a recommended app?  I looked and there are several.

You're Forum you Silly

Not alot of forums let and any that have a detailed people as this one.

[Gary Lewis]

ETM wrote

You're Forum you Silly

Not alot of forums let and any that have a detailed people as this one.

Ok, now that we have the right comments in the right threads, please tell me what you mean.  

[1986F150Six]

Gary Lewis wrote

ETM wrote

You're Forum you Silly

Not alot of forums let and any that have a detailed people as this one.

Ok, now that we have the right comments in the right threads, please tell me what you mean.  

 Gary's father would have said, "if that is meant as a compliment then I thank you!"