Alternator Upgrade Related Questions (was One-Wire Alternator Questions)

[dirtymac]

I appreciate the schematic but I think some of this may be beyond my current comprehension.

I can make out the W/BK stator wire going into the choke relay.
I see the DB wire with 20A fuse from the starter relay to the choke relay.
I see the choke relay connecting to the choke heater.
It looks like the choke relay goes to ground on the black wire.

It looks like this has a lot of other relay's downstream from this relay.  I suspect that most of those, based on their names, are related to some of the stuff that has been removed from my truck.  I have no EGR or Smog or solenoids on my carb.

If half of that is right I'll be amazed.

[ArdWrknTrk]

You just need to see that the stator (4 b/w)
is pulling in the relay (the other side of the coil (57) is ground)
And that 67 gy/w is actually the other side of 4 (stator) going to the choke heater.

The stator pulls in the relay and the relay takes power from the main power (37 Y) through a fuselink, and feeds the choke.

Look at only this....

[ArdWrknTrk]

Dark blue is the fuselink color code for 20Ga.💡
The 37 wire is yellow, like the rest of the main cab power wire....

ETA: 302 is an eyelet at the hot stud of the fender relay.

[ArdWrknTrk]

dirtymac wrote

I appreciate the schematic but I suspect that most of those, based on their names, are related to some of the stuff that has been removed from my truck.  I have no EGR or Smog or solenoids on my carb.

This is a schematic from a 1985/6 351HO.
None of this stuff came on your '82 400 F-250.

[dirtymac]

doh!

[ArdWrknTrk]

I hope I'm not coming off the wrong way.
I'm just trying to be helpful and answer your question and address your observations.  

[dirtymac]

Got it.  I think I can tackle this at the same time as the 3G and I'll bundle everything up together.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Will
If you're going to go with a 3G alternator I'd suggest simply getting a 7V Motorcraft style choke cap and running the choke directly from the Stator (b/w #4) wire.
Eliminate the complexity, confusion and possible failure of a relay.  (like you already found disintegrated in your truck)
The wiring is simpler and worked for decades in 10's of millions of Ford/Lincoln/Mercury vehicles.

These choke caps can be found from other brands, not only OEM.
Here's one made in the USA, with a tab on the edge, just like yours.
https://www.carburetor-parts.com/motorcraft-thermostat-th1023

Edit: they call it a thermostat because it is a bimetallic clock spring, just like the classic domed Honeywell T87F 2873 mercury bulb thermostat.

[dirtymac]

That was my original plan, but when I reached out to Mike's Carburetor, they told me all of their chokes were 12v.  Maybe I asked the wrong question?

[ArdWrknTrk]

I don't know who you talked to, but obviously they DO have ~7V choke heaters.

You seem articulate and intelligent.
I don't think you asked the wrong question.🤷‍♂️

More likely the person on the phone has no idea that a 'for Motorcraft' choke is meant to operate on unrectified 2/3 alternator output.

[dirtymac]

So the part number you linked, is the one they had recommended to me.  When I asked them if it was 12v or 7v, they said all of their chokes were 12v.  I've asked for clarification and explained I was planning to use the stator wire on the alternator.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Again, I don't think the person on the phone knows a darn thing about electric chokes.

They may know carbureted fuel systems like the back of their hand.
I, and Gary, and Bill (the triumvirate of crusty old Bullnose geeks) can assure you that a Motorcraft choke coil is meant to run on unrectified stator output.

I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm just trying to make your life easier by telling you the facts.
7Vish coils go WAY back. Back as far as if id said that "All Ford gauges up to 1986 are meant to run on 6V"

It's the internet. A dozen people would want to fight me, and argue to the death that I'm wrong 'because ford stopped using 6V batteries and generators with the '65 Mustang.'

But they'd be wrong.....
I'm too old to care what they think. And I'm mean and tired enough to watch them screw themselves for entertainment.

I will tag Bill and see what the former owner of a carburetor shop and self proclaimed "Old School Hotrodder" has to say..

(( corrected the V.   Have I said multiple times I hate my new screen protector? ))

[dirtymac]

I'll see if anyone else responds before I order it but otherwise I'll try that one.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Will,
I had put those eBay pigtails on my watchlist when I posted them.
I've received a discount offer from mcgworld.
If you want to save a couple of bucks you might try 'watching' them too.  

[dirtymac]

That's happened to me twice in the last month but I already ordered them :(

[85lebaront2]

Ok, first item, Ford gauges through 1986 are 5 volt King-Seely gauges the design of which dates to the 40s. When the electrical systems on Fords went to 12 volts in 1956, a resistance wire and a regulator (called an IVR) were added to allow the same gauges to be used. Ford finally switched to the balanced coil design in 1990.

On choke heaters, the alternator stator is tapped to provide 7 volts to the Ford choke cover. If you insist on using a Chinese one wire alternator, then you need a switch and possibly a relay to provide power to the electric choke. Both Holley and Carter have 12 volt choke covers, Chrysler 2.2L carbureted engines used a 2 or 3 terminal switch. 2 terminal was normally open, closed with pressure, 3 terminal added the idiot light circuit.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I think we're not concerned with the 1-wire or using a choke relay any more.
I was looking for validation that the made in USA Motorcraft style choke cap linked above will work directly from the #4 stator wire coming from a 3G upgrade.

I find it interesting the gauges are 5V, since Gary seemed to do quite a bit of tuning with a bench power supply when he replaced the ICVR with a SWAD-J solid state converter came up with 5.4V.

[dirtymac]

I gave up on the 1-wire and I am going to do the 3G upgrade.  Jim and Gary have been helping with that tremendously.

[dirtymac]

I think I have all of the wiring changes for a 3G sorted out and the choke situation is mostly sorted.  My next issue is sourcing the actual alternator.

My original plan was to get something around 160amp because that is what I have in my current tow vehicle (2015 Jeep Wrangler Willis).  After some discussions on here and with my brother, I think 100amp will be more than sufficient for a while.

I have been reading through the 3G documentation you all have worked on and I am trying to understand all of it.  I need to sort out a pulley upgrade and physical alternator size.  I do want to get a new alternator and would like it to be a decent one.

My 1G has a single v-belt pulley running off crank pulley.  I would like to upgrade to a 2 belt pulley for future proofing.  I'm not quite sure how to size or find the pulley.  I'm also not 100% sure of what I would put the second belt on.  The only thing available with my stock setup with be to add it with the A/C compressor.  I also wouldn't mind having a second belt on it regardless of amperage.

My current 1G seems to have the 7" hole spacing.  I can't take it off right now to verify that, but a quick measurement looked closer to 7" than 8.25".  I am a little confused on this part in the 3G documentation.  It says the different hole spacing were based around which type of belt configuration you have.  It sounds like I may need the 8.25" but I'm not sure I have the room for that on my bracket.  I'm looking at the current 1G, the belt, and the bracket and there is only about 1"-2" of additional space for tightening the belt on the bracket.  Maybe that is enough or maybe I should go down to a smaller belt?

Oh and my truck has the combined smog/alternator setup only my smog pump is long gone.  I do have the complete bracket though and the bolts.






As usual, I am seeking advise from the more experienced folks.

[ArdWrknTrk]

3G you have the choice of 95A (small 135mm case) or 130A (larger 148mm case)

These reliably put out 125 & 160A respectively.

Your current setup is definitely 7" C-C.
If you want the 130A get the 8.25" for adjustability.

I don't know how your belts are set up now but finding a crank pulley with adjacent sheaves that are the same size is challenging at best.....  

I have a single belt and with a LRC regulator I have no squeak on startup or slippage (but I do have good belt wrap)