The FORD Lounge

[ArdWrknTrk]

Hate to wake a sleeplng dog, but I saw this on Ars Technica this morning:  https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/12/study-that-argued-evs-arent-cleaner-gets-an-update/

And while Ars is a techcentric geek publication, science is not about bias or emotion, it is about observable fact.
Our ability gets better and more granular every day.

Reduction in use of dirty conflict metals, more efficient manufacture of batteries, more options to reuse those batteries for grid or offgrid storage after their time powering a vehicle, and better recycling processes all have led to more data points supporting the adoption of EV's.

[Rembrant]

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Hate to wake a sleeplng dog, but I saw this on Ars Technica this morning:  https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/12/study-that-argued-evs-arent-cleaner-gets-an-update/

And while Ars is a techcentric geek publication, science is not about bias or emotion, it is about observable fact.
Our ability gets better and more granular every day.

Reduction in use of dirty conflict metals, more efficient manufacture of batteries, more options to reuse those batteries for grid or offgrid storage after their time powering a vehicle, and better recycling processes all have led to more data points supporting the adoption of EV's.

I guess this improvement helps prove the point that the initial subsidies and tax breaks will provide a good ROI in the long run.

I hear that the charging  network is not keeping up with the car production though...something will need to be done about that soon.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/31274/more-teslas-on-the-road-meant-hours-long-supercharger-lines-over-thanksgiving

[Ray Cecil]

I looked at the Tesla trucks website. If I had to buy an electric truck, Id go with the Rivian hands down. Im a huge Elon Musk fan, but no way id buy a truck that looks like something I sketched in elementary school.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I can definitely see an exceptional situation on an exceptional travel day.
Situation is going to be worse on Christmas, when more EV drivers are going to be running resistance heaters.
Utilizing battery thermal management to baseline climate control will help there.

I think a huge investment in electrical grid infrastructure is a necessity though!
With more and more local electric (like the fuel cell plants in municipalities and at factories, and grid tied 'personal' solar we may not have to run more transcontinental and trans regional HVTL.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I am in NO WAY a Tesla (or Musk) fanboi.
The fruck is publicity hype, just like SpaceX launching a first gen Roadster out past Mars.

Meanwhile, rustbelt cities could be doing what needs be done for UPS & USPS.
That would pay huge dividends going forward a generation.
This has got to be the beachhead market for light & medium duty trucks.

[Danny G]

Rembrant wrote

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Hate to wake a sleeplng dog, but I saw this on Ars Technica this morning:  https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/12/study-that-argued-evs-arent-cleaner-gets-an-update/

And while Ars is a techcentric geek publication, science is not about bias or emotion, it is about observable fact.
Our ability gets better and more granular every day.

Reduction in use of dirty conflict metals, more efficient manufacture of batteries, more options to reuse those batteries for grid or offgrid storage after their time powering a vehicle, and better recycling processes all have led to more data points supporting the adoption of EV's.

I guess this improvement helps prove the point that the initial subsidies and tax breaks will provide a good ROI in the long run.

I hear that the charging  network is not keeping up with the car production though...something will need to be done about that soon.

https://www.thedrive.com/news/31274/more-teslas-on-the-road-meant-hours-long-supercharger-lines-over-thanksgiving

not only that, they only allow a 80% charge and on the way you go. We need to get the grid up from 17% renewable energy up to 81% to eliminate fossil fuels.

[Danny G]

The front end of that Tesla is growing on me. But they keep comparing it to a Ford and exaggerating costs and its a real turn off, don't BS me.

Read an article that says the Cyber truck has a 5 year maintenance cost of $200 vs the F-150's they say costs $5724, and a repair cost of $1000 for the cyber truck vs $1043 for the F-150.

It's utter BS, the 5 year maintenance cost estimate for a model S is $2400 by Tesla, actual averages calculated by Market watch are $2800. Whats a dozen oil changes, air filter, a battery, and a trans flush going to cost? Not $5700.

Want a power wall add in $8000.

Then lets talk about batteries. The battery is rated for 4-6 years. So expect to replace one under normal conditions at the cost of $7000 per Tesla.

Cyber truck range of 350 miles is supposedly whacked in half if towing. SO now your down to 175 mile range on a FULL battery. BUT the charging stations are limited to 80% charge. So now that cuts you down to 140 miles before needing to "top off". According to Tesla it takes 40 minutes to charge their batteries to 80%, then there is the issue of the 25 minute wait time. So every 140miles be prepared to wait over an hour to get topped off. I pray to God you don't have to do this with children. If I were to head to Skiatook that means 8 stops for me, meaning adding cost, maybe an extra hotel, and entertaining children for 8 and a half hours while I "refuel"... Not practical. My 16 hour trip just became a 24 hour trip, that's a 53% increase in travel time. Compared to the 3 stops I would make in a newer F-150 hauling the same load and the 15 minutes I add to my trip filling up vs 8.5 hours.

If you get half battery life out while towing, you can probably expect that battery replacement to go from 4-6 years down to 2-3 years bumping your replacement costs up to possible $14k in 5 years.

Add to that the out of sight out of mind pollution costs and its just not worth it in my opinion. Only 17% of the grid is green energy powered per EIA.gov. That means per the first law of thermodynamics, 83% of the time EV's are charged from the grid, they still contribute to pollution.

I love the idea of an electric truck, and electric everything is coming along very well, its an exciting time, it's just not quite there yet. Batteries and charging/infrastructure need to be addressed sooner than later.

[Rembrant]

I happened to come across this certification label while looking at an Ebay truck this morning, and the only reason it is even noteworthy is the build date. I know we were discussing the other day when the model year changeover was, and I knew it was in or near the summer, etc. As Bullnoses go, this would be a very late build...

[ArdWrknTrk]

80% is exactly what ratings are based on.
Along with the 15% minimum.

This is the same as most other Lithium battery chemistries.
Optimal life comes from not pushing complete discharge or filling to capacity.

I've spoken to Tesla owners who do a lot of driving (~200+k & 11 years) without having to change their packs.
Newer batteries are said to be even better.

[85lebaront2]

How about this one, I don't know if the consecutive unit numbers (last 5 of the VIN were individual plants or for all) This Darth's.

[ArdWrknTrk]

Ok, I need to put this back on subject again.

[Ray Cecil]

ArdWrknTrk wrote

Ok, I need to put this back on subject again.

Whatcha wanna talk about now?

[ArdWrknTrk]

I've got nothing this morning, but the thread title is "The FORD Lounge" again...

Remember, I am a miserable x because I changed it back in the first place....

[Ray Cecil]

Well, how about Fords ties/investment in Rivian?

[ArdWrknTrk]

What about them?
I wish I was a fly on the wall of the old Detroit Metro Station.
There is going to be a lot happening inside those hallowed walls.

[Danny G]

ArdWrknTrk wrote

80% is exactly what ratings are based on.
Along with the 15% minimum.

This is the same as most other Lithium battery chemistries.
Optimal life comes from not pushing complete discharge or filling to capacity.

I've spoken to Tesla owners who do a lot of driving (~200+k & 11 years) without having to change their packs.
Newer batteries are said to be even better.

 Getting better every day, techs been around for a long time just not had the commercial Innovation behind it. I'm excited to see what the 20's hold for battery tech. Hopefully an affordable option to store power from my solar panels.

[Danny G]

85lebaront2 wrote

How about this one, I don't know if the consecutive unit numbers (last 5 of the VIN were individual plants or for all) This Darth's.

Mine and my friends were both built in the Norfolk plant in 06/86. You think they would have moved onto the 1987 version by now.

I wish I could get a new sticker made up lol. It's so faded.

[Rembrant]

TheScatch wrote

I wish I could get a new sticker made up lol. It's so faded.

Marti makes them. I have to order one for mine since it was removed when the truck was painted (It was kinda ratty anyway).

[Danny G]

While quite hilarious, this is a good example of you don't now until you know. Meaning, not everyone has been raised to do even simple work or have mechanical backgrounds, but if they have the will, and the want, people should take the time to help vs chastise. The latter is how you thin the community out of future wrench turners and destroy someones interest in something that could be a great hobby or money saver. Self reliance is a priceless tool.

[ArdWrknTrk]

I have a whole bin, with them all sorted out by hue.

You need to remind him that you have to properly shut down the vehicle first.
Hot swapping is not recommended!